Should Syracuse Think About Using More Man-to-Man Defense?
D.A. | Jul 17, 2011 | Comments 25
The signature of Syracuse basketball is the 2-3 zone. Jim Boeheim’s masterpiece has been run to near perfection for 35 years. Heck, you can buy a Boeheim zone instructional video on Amazon for $39.99. While there’s no chance the Per’fesser will suddenly have a change of heart in his twilight years on the sideline, it would be intriguing to see JB throw a change-up on occasion and use man to man in games.
Why? Because the personnel and great depth of the Orange in the upcoming season, could work perfectly for it.
Dion Waiters and Brandon Triche are the two players that stick out who could have the ability to be great lock down defenders. They are built to play man defense. Putting them at the top of a zone doesn’t utilize their defensive abilities (as Dion’s coach once told The Fizz). Both DW and Brandon have the quickness to stay with smaller guys and the frame to out-muscle bigger guards. They both could apply a lot of pressure to ball handlers and cause turnovers for quick points the other way.
Man to man would also raise the level of intensity on defense that SU desperately needed at times last year. Former SU guard Jonny Flynn stated that M2M kept his team more focused in the game because of constant activity on both ends of the floor. Many of the Orange guards were criticized for lazy play and poor defense at the top of the zone. But playing zone breeds lethargy. Playing man lights a fire with the one job being not to let your guy beat you and score. When your man scores, you are the one accountable for it. SU players may embrace the challenge to “man up” and shut down top scorers.
Another reason to run man to man is the zone doesn’t always work. Against good shooting teams (Louisville) or on a night a team catches fire (Seton Hall last season), the zone is vulnerable. There were times in the pass season where a tweak in the game plan was definitely needed. Witness the Cards draining threes and cutting up the defense (which seems to happen every year against Pitino). Or Jeremy Hazell seamlessly rising over the smaller guards on the perimeter and scorching the Orange for 28 points (a switch out of the zone probably would have helped).
Boeheim has switched out of his zone in the past, and the Orange has benefited from it. In the ’08-’09 season, multiple times a change to man was the catalyst for a late second-half surge. The most notable was against Kansas when SU, down 12 mid way through the second, switched to M2M and sparked a great comeback. A new energy was given to Syracuse that game and many players credited the man defense for the win.
This is not to suggest abandoning the zone. This is the Per’fesser’s bread and butter that has guided him to more than 800 wins. Just a way to spice it up more often and keep teams on their toes. Having to plan to play against both man and zone defense would give teams nightmares and might even make the zone even more effective.
Posted: Dave Van Moffaert
Show your work.
http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=Syracuse
We were top 20 in defense last year. #1 in blocks, #29 in 3pt defense, #9 in steals.
Those arent exactly signs of a lethargic defense.
You seem to cherry pick a couple of games where the other team ran hot. It goes both ways (@Uconn, @Gtown, vs ND, @Nova)!
you guys are killing me
any chance of a new topic?
i mean come on should jimmy be playing more man defense. so after all these years he should change? come on.
the answer to your article is the same answer to the 1323 other articles written in the last 20 years…..
no syracuse shouldn’t play more man
and
no they aren’t going to play more man defense
the parts you leave out of your old @$$ argument. they played man against lemoyne….how did that work out?
look at someone like flynn, everyone thought he was pretty good in the zone…gets to the nba and can’t defend anyone. would’ve been a great idea to have him play man in college, right??
come on guys….new topics
that should be your topic on the next fizzcast.
What NEW topics can we cover???
“look at someone like flynn, everyone thought he was pretty good in the zone…gets to the nba and can’t defend anyone. would’ve been a great idea to have him play man in college, right??”
Unfortunately for you, the answer to your sarcasm-laden query is: Yes.
NBA scouts and coaches have long and often made comments along the following lines: “the knock on Syracuse players coming into the NBA is that they can’t play M2M.”
While everyone poo-poos what the Fizz is suggesting, I don’t think people comprehend what he actually wrote. The 2-3 is Boeheim’s signature defense and he is not going to abandon it. Not now. Not ever. However, there are times when it is ineffective – despite flawless execution. Fizz cites examples. Those are the times a defensive change-up may befuddle a hot-shooting team or opposing player and spark a ‘Cuse run. That’s all he’s saying. I think it’s a valid point.
Some of you read too much into things. If you’re so into the 2-3 Zone or death mentality, then let’s try that on offense, too. Seriously. Let’s give Scoop the green light to run down the floor and jack up 3′s with 25 seconds left on the shot clock – every play. When that doesn’t work, should we stick with it…?
ao buddy come on
the fizz can’t come up with new topic so he throws out old ones again and again…fact
so to ‘befuddle’ the opponent, syracuse should run the defense that everyone else runs???
the point is you stick what you are better at
they are better at the zone so they play zone
there are times when a man to man is ineffective too that doesn’t mean you abandon what you do best.
the point is there is no argument to make here.
syracuse plays zone…don’t ask them to switch…its not going to happen. Its a weak old topic there is no sense in asking nonstop and calling up radio stations saying ‘jimmy b needs to play man to change things up’ because he doesn’t need to change anything.
flynn can’t play defense because he can’t play defense, if jimmy b had played man in college the fact is it would’ve just cost flynn money because the nba would’ve already known that.
yes that is a something ‘nba people’ say about cuse. However, name one single player that would’ve been a better nba player had cuse played man????
just one???
can’t come up with one can you, interesting.
Haha! mdb80 asks the questions – and then takes the liberty of answering them for me. I guess he’s just being polite…
“However, name one single player that would’ve been a better nba player had cuse played man????”
Supposition, my man. In fact, I could argue that the experience of learning (and playing) M2M would benefit ANY ‘Cuse player moving onto the big leagues. Don’t you think that ‘Cuse players are better than anyone when it comes to playing NBA zone? The experience they got at SU gave it to them.
Bottom line: you practice ANYTHING for 4 years, you’re gonna be better at it than if you had not practiced it. See the analogy?
To name names, as I’m sure you will say “Aha!” if I didn’t: every current SU player in the NBA – except Carmelo would ‘ve benefitted playing (some) man in college. You say Jonny, but in reality, Carmelo’s the one who doesn’t play defense.
You also seem to miss the point Fizz and now AO are making: WE ARE NOT DEMANDING BOEHEIM STOP PLAYING ZONE!!!!
Not sure why it’s just not sinking in with you.
mdb80: “‘befuddle’ the opponent, syracuse should run the defense that everyone else runs???”
AO: Uhhh, if the opponent is dropping 3′s on you like Charlie Sheen drops dollars on escorts – maybe switching to man could help. In fact, JB has done it – and even a press, but often too late.
mdb80: “the point is you stick what you are better at”
AO: Fizz and I actually agree with you – to a point. You stick with what works for you… until it doesn’t work.
mdb80: “they are better at the zone so they play zone” and “there are times when a man to man is ineffective too that doesn’t mean you abandon what you do best.
AO: Again, see what I wrote in CAPS above. Every recruit is NOT better at playing zone coming in from high school. Even you know that’s not true. The fact is, the 2-3 is JB’s defensive preference. I’d have no argument if you said the following:
“JB’s signature is the zone, so they play zone.”
That is closer to reality than saying they play it better. Every player had to learn it coming here. With the exception of Rakeem Christmas coming in – no one played strictly zone in HS. The players actually play better man defense than zone – prior to coming here.
I’m simply saying – stay with the 2-3 until it becomes obviously apparent that it is not working in a game situation.
As a fan and alum, I want my team to do what it takes to win. At the risk of sounding blasphemous to most of the SU faithful, including mdb80, I say, yea, let’s try M2M and relentless full-court presses… when we’re getting our butts kicked laying back in the zone.
I like the the zone. If JB was to do anything to shake things up a bit they should come up with some press’s and some traps and then fall back into the zone. I feel that getting the players more active somtimes in different spots during the game is key.
Mdb80- I havent seen flynn play much but i do know he was hurt all yr with a bad hip and the yr before was his rookie yr. I dont know if you can call him a bad defender yet. Besides who in the nba even plays D during the reg. season? The nba is a glorified and-1 league /w out the hype man on the floor yelling “oh baby” 100x. Its also the middle of summer not much of anything going on right now on the hill so bashing the fizz over the topic choice is kinda childish. Also `Cuse hoops rules the football team has no chance of winning a NC and i drather have stuff on the bball team b/c they have a chance to win a NC this yr.
NO. WE ARE A ZONE TEAM. THE END.
Love the feedback. As I ,and AO say, I dont’ think we should abandon the zone! My point is with this group of players I think it can be effective a times. Also, when the zone isn’t working a particular night, why not make an in-game adjustment and throw a man defense and see if that slows them down? In addition I never say that the zone doesn’t work. Brendan, you are correct that there are games that the zone works wonders! I site the ones when it would have been wise to switch to man. And yes, we are a zone team and the majority of the time we should play it. But I see no harm of learning and playing man in games.
DVM
Andy’s quote cracks me up! I have one for you, my man: PEPPERONI AND CHEESE PIZZA. NO VARIATIONS. THE END.
OK, now that I’ve had my laugh for the day, I have to applaud DVM’s post. He GETS IT!!! Use of the phrase “in-game adjustment” is exactly what I am referring to.
Carlton also gets it. Presses and traps – when needed. Exactly.
For those who STILL don’t get it, allow me to reiterate: SU should stick with the 2-3 zone 99% of the time. Only make in-game defensive adjustments if an opposing team or player is on fire (for example: raining 3-pointers down on us). The use of man defense, presses and traps are all valid options that must be considered in the event the 2-3 zone is ineffective.
I actually laughed out loud after typing that and imagining some fans out there, like dear Andy and mdb80, who are screeching things like “That’s absurd!”, “Preposterous!” and even, God forbid, “Heresy!”
I like the points this article makes and many of the points in the previous comments. Personally I think the “steadfast, stick to your guns” approach to the 2-3 is a weakness for Boeheim and the Orange. No, I don’t want to trade JB in for another coach and no I don’t want to see the team playing M2M consistently. What I do want is team flexibility and the ability to adjust to the opponent. I’m glad the author pointed out the ’08-’09 victory over Kansas because that game was sticking out in my mind until I got to it in the article and it is a perfect example of what the team should do if possible. I say “if possible” because that team was capable of changing it up and throwing a different style at the opponent. Obviously JB and the staff recruit for players that will fit the zone defense philosophy. So, in some years that squad just isn’t able to change styles effectively. I feel, as it seems the author does, that heading into next season there are athletes on the team that could make a mid-game transition to M2M, if and when the zone is being broken down. Our zone may still be an advantage against many top teams in the country that rarely see a zone as effective as SU’s but the teams and coaches in the BE have become quite accustomed to it and understand how to exploit it. The zone will always be the primary philosophy as long as JB is at the helm and I have no problem with that whatsoever. But, a change of pace when warranted can only improve this team and its chances for success.
Hey AO, you’re not funny.
Now that that’s out of the way, I think that after all this time under the Per’fessers reign, that people think the Orange defense will change. I stick by my last comment, zone D, the end.. because that is exactly what it is. You like man defense? check out louisville, they’ve got a great one, but this is cuse and we run the zone.
We draft players made for the zone. Guys that are big and long and that is what makes our zone the best in the nation. When we run the zone correctly, then it is as good as any other kind of defense we could possibly use.
So in closing, to all those who feel the need to debate this any longer, don’t change the defense, adjust the zone. Dont argue with success
oh, and for AO
THE END
Andy, I bet I’d get you to crack up over a few beers at the Varsity! And you can get anything you want on your pizza…!
i dont like the going to m2m D idea at all but traping and falling back into the 2-3 to disrupt the offensive rhythm of a team is a good idea. Dont any of you remember the 03′ run? The press got the `cuse a NC.
Andy: Now dont get me wrong i like jb but your flat out worshiping the ground he walks on. To be blunt in 33 yrs hes only brought 1 NC to the hill. Your acting like hes the reincarnation of the “wizard of westwood” and hes not. Honestly his refusal to change anything at times or only to do so when things are out of hand in recent yrs has got me thinking hes run his course at the `Cuse. Although at the samtime i feel like this is his program he bulit it and he should be the one that makes the call on when/how he wants to leave.Basically i’m saying he shouldnt feel above listening to somone else and tweaking a thing here and there when it calls for it b/c he doesnt have 10 banners hanging in the dome.
Carlton, your entire post contradicts itself.
“i dont like the going to m2m D idea at all ”
“Honestly his refusal to change anything at times or only to do so when things are out of hand in recent yrs has got me thinking hes run his course at the `Cuse”
you are out of your mind. Do you remember the year of Wes, Andy and Arinze? THAT was how the zone is supposed to be run. They were moving in the zone, with traps and all the bells and whistles and guess what? IT WORKED, They were number 1 in the land. The fact that this article takes one example of m2m working for syracuse is like saying that one time i used a terrible pickup line on a drunken chick and it worked, therefore terible pickup lines work. JB knows what hes doing, you just need to look back on that season and see the fruition of everything JB coming together.
In JB I trust, I love the 2-3 because when its done right, it works. DFont blame JB, blame the players.
Look, the zone is fine and has many benefits – Leads to run outs and fast break opportunities,etc – if a team gets hot and is draining 3′s, they get hot, no issue. Problem is on the offensive end. This team would often get lethargic on the offensive end, take poor shots and waste possessions.
So you’re saying that having our big guards try to keep up with a guy like Kemba Walker (or any quick guard for that matter) wouldn’t tire them out as much as our zone defense and thus produce better offense?
I dont agree with that at all. Look at the 09-10 season, quality zone defense and good scoring. Your argument is irrelevant.
Frankly Andy, your inflexibility saddens me. And your “drunken chick” analogy is completely off base. KU is hardly the “drunk chick” of NCAA basketball.
The best teams in basketball, and in all sports for that matter, are those that have a sound base philosophy but are able to make proper adjustments based on in-game events.
Listen cap2nine, I am just defending what we have always done and are currently doing. You think that your comments on a local sports website is going to change JBs opinion of how to run the Orange?
You are completely missing the point of my comments. You can complain all you want to, and I am sure you will, but if you honestly think that we just run the same old zone every game and cross our fingers that it works then you know less than I think you do.
Next season when the game is done and you are baffled on how the cuse ever got another win with their terrible zone defense, take a breath and listen to JB’s postgame comments.
You will hear him say something to the effect of “At halftime we had to ADJUST our defense a little bit to blah blah blah” hence last season why we got called a “2nd half team” so often. IN GAME ADJUSTMENTS!
JB is all about adjusting the defense to make it work in the moment, and when it does then it is beautiful.
how can you make a comment like you did and think JB and the Orange dont apply to it?
JB HAS one of the best teams in college bball who HAS a sound base philosophy and DOES make in game adjustments.
I just dont understand why you and others have such a problem with the zone. It’s working, we have the talent to make it work, and SU is a great team.
And the drunk chick reference was great, cmon man.
No one is saying do away /w the zone but mixing it up would be nice when times call for it. Again u act like JB has won 10 NC’s in his 33yrs as head coach. He hasnt so saying that he doesnt need to fix somthing when he’s only won 1 nc in 33 yrs is kinda funny.
fuck it, you guys win. someone go tell JB
I thought Andy’s drunk chick reference was funny!
This has been a great discussion guys. Really fun to read everyone’s points of view. One thing to definitely remember is that DVM was not suggesting throw 35 years of the zone out the window – merely suggesting that at times they could switch it up if it’s not working. I mean, I love JB as much as anyone – but even I can agree he’s hard-headed at times. The zone can often hide specific players defensive weaknesses and I think that’s where JB’s brilliance has been with it. It just plain confounds plenty of teams – but if you have some horses to go man, it probably benefits you to occasionally try it. Either way Im fired up about a potential top-5 team!
-DA
Great spirited debate as D.A. said but I have to jump in. Andy – you keep pointing to the 09-10 season which was the best zone Boeheim’s ever had if you ask many and without a doubt in the last decade (including the NC team that got hot in March behind a star in Melo). That’s one year when EVERYTHING fell into place and you saw how fragile it was when one thing didn’t work (A.O getting hurt). The zone is so good b/c Syracuse runs it better than anyone and they should keep running it because it is effective, but its also important to remember there’s a reason most teams play man. It’s a superior defense. The frustration is in games like Seton Hall or GT last year when clearly the zone isn’t working. Switch it up for a few possessions, give the offense something else to look at and maybe get a turnover. We’ll see if JB tries it this year. He’s done it before.